Cortney

On Non-linear Paths, Identities, and Poetic Expression

Cortney is a 24-year old marketing researcher/poet based in New York.

Interviewed March 6, 2015

Tell me a little about yourself and what you're doing.

I'm Cortney, 24. Right now I'm living in Jersey City and working in marketing research. I got the job from doing campus recruiting my senior year in college. I had always been interested in Nielsen as a company; I liked consumer behavior. I put in my resume and got selected, and it kind of went on from there. They've always been on my list of places to work, so I'm glad I ended up there.

Was it what you thought it'd be?

To some extent, I had no idea what it would be like. I didn't intern with them, so I had no immediate first hand knowledge of the culture, etc. I think in terms of the work, it's what I expected. There's a lot of data and analysis, but I'm crafting stories and persuasive arguments and trying to be a consultant for my clients. That part is really cool. I didn't anticipate working with my clients to the degree that I do. I work onsite at a corporate office 4 days a week. I'm basically a part of their team, and I'm integrated into their business very closely. I have lunch with them every day; it's a different experience. I think that's an intriguing component of the job — being an employee of one company but really existing in another.

Since this is your first job out of college, was there anything Nielsen prepped you with to advise clients?

The company gives you a lot of training, whether it's online or in classrooms. They bring in people to make sure everyone is equipped with a fundamental grasp of how to handle different situations, whether it's the proprietary systems and data or more about soft skills and how to manage clients. When you first join the company, they make you go through a lot of that training within your first year on the job. I even have team-specific trainings about the relationship with my client.

How do you like being part of that machine?

It's interesting, but sometimes it is frustrating. We differ from consultants, who are included on a project-by-project basis. When they reach out to find a consultant, they're spending money on that particular project, so they're more receptive to their ideas. They see us every day, so while we bring ideas to the table, it's easier to overlook us because we're always there. It's not special when we bring you something, because we're always bringing something to the table. The flip side is that we understand their business so intimately, so we can be steps ahead of them. When you do good work, they are very appreciative of what you do. There's an interesting symbiotic relationship. Overall the experience has been very positive for me, and I've been working with them since I left school. I made a lot of contacts, built a lot of relationships.

Is this what you always wanted to do?

No. I originally thought going into college that I'd go to law school after this. I have always had an interest in public service, so maybe I thought that would lead me into governmental work and the political arena. That kind of morphed over time. I started out with that interest, but morphed to be less about politics and more about crafting good policy, especially within urban environments. I always thought I would go to an NGO or foundation that worked in that space, especially urban development and urban revitalization, particularly as it relates to education, jobs, and criminal justice — those have always been spaces that interested me.

I interned in a non-profit in Philly one summer, and the next summer I ended up at Google randomly. I guess I was just looking to make some more money over the summer. The Google experience was interesting because it was the tech space, but it actually ended up introducing me to the CPG space. At Google, I was on a team servicing P&G and had to do research on their brand to come up with activities they could do throughout the year related to search advertising. After all that, I wanted to learn more about brand management and how you can influence people to favor your product over another in the store.

It was a change for me because my coursework was all oriented towards policy and urban development, but I found marketing interesting and was very curious to explore more. I thought it would help me to build my skillset, and then take those skills to eventually go to the space I cared about. That ended up being a good move, because when I was looking for full time jobs, I looked in both spaces, but the jobs in non-profits and institutions were so much harder to come by without experience. It made a lot of sense to go into marketing first, so I guess I was hedging my bets a little bit.

This dilemma happens to just about everybody, when it comes to when to balance two interests, especially when money and career prospects factor into the equation. What do you think about kids making those decisions today?

I think the vast majority of people have no idea what they want to do. There's a smaller subset that thinks they know what they want to do, but not really. I think there's no one who actually knows what they want to do. I was in that second group, all throughout college. But at where I am now, I think I'm really not a believer of linear paths. Linear paths can even be detrimental for limiting how people explore. If they let themselves explore, they can stop and see if their decisions are really right for them personally. Going to school at Penn and seeing where people went after graduation, it was clear that there was a cultural preference to take certain jobs over others. For some people that works, but it's not for everyone. I think a lot of people feel pressure to follow the crowd, even when it's not the right job from them. If they follow their own feelings, they'll be more productive at those jobs and have a happier life. I think it's important to have that balance.

I'm really not a believer of linear paths. Linear paths can even be detrimental for limiting how people explore.

How would you generalize the kinds of factors people should be thinking about?

More than anything, I think it takes a lot of self-reflection and honesty. Honesty about what you want and your ambitions, and honesty about where they come from. What drives you towards an action? Money? Social impact? Being able to express yourself creatively? There's a whole bunch of options and it could be a mixture of everything. I could want to be creative but make money for a comfortable lifestyle. You have to be conscious of those tradeoffs and be comfortable with them. Otherwise, it's easy to be resentful of where you end up. If you're not honest beforehand, you might be selling yourself something that isn't real. I think it's important to have clear expectations that are realistic and influenced by personal research, experiences, and being informed. I think it's also important for people to talk to each other; there's a lot you can gain from hearing about the mistakes of others. It could empower you to go into a very different direction, or save you from making future mistakes. All things said, don't be afraid to change your path. You shouldn't feel an unhealthy loyalty to something if that doesn't make sense.

Given what you know what you know, is there anything you would do differently in college or while growing up?

I had a different approach when I was younger. Back then, I was just putting myself in positions where I would have opportunities. I'd focus on doing well in school and doing activities to set myself up. I had fun when I wanted to, but I did focus on doing well.

In college, I would change the way I worked. I think I was a bit too insular, and I would've liked to work more with other people in the classroom. I was very much someone who thought I had to prove myself, even if it meant I had to fight against the whole world. Not aggressively, but I felt like I had something to prove. That was a motivating force but in some ways, that hurt me. I would try to tell myself to be more collaborative, and just to be willing to engage in that way.

Outside of the classroom, I was involved with a lot of stuff and met a lot of different people. I loved that part of that experience; I wouldn't change a thing. Academically, I always think I could've done better. I didn't do poorly at all, but it's just the perfectionist tendency to think that way. Still, I still got to a place I'm very happy with, so I'm very happy with this outcome. Maybe I wouldn't change anything. It's a tough question.

You have to be conscious of those tradeoffs and be comfortable with them. Otherwise, it's easy to be resentful of where you end up. If you're not honest beforehand, you might be selling yourself something that isn't real.

Tell me about how you grew up. Who or what had the strongest influences in shaping your life outlook today?

My parents were definitely my biggest influences. I'm an amalgam of both my parents. My mom is the book smart one. She's analytical, well spoken, and great at managing things. I think I got a lot of my academic tendencies from her. My dad is more of a people person, the communicator, the one who has a very high emotional intelligence. That's something I received from him, and it's been an important asset of mine, trying to make sure I understand people and where they come from, what makes them tick and what makes them happy. I want to be someone people can rely on and be supportive of other people.

My extended family is the same way. They were such strong supporters of me through everything and made me feel empowered, like I could accomplish anything I wanted to do. That's a great asset to have — people express their love in different ways, and even if you receive that kind of love, you don't often receive that kind of empowerment.

Growing up, I was always a lover of history so I was very inspired by people who came before me that I admired for making gargantuan positive changes in the world. Deep down, what I'm trying to say is that I want to make the world a better place, so I'm drawn to people that made the world a better place.

Being that my family is African American and that my grandparents grew up in the south before they moved to Chicago, racial and class politics were very important to me from a very young age. That made me that much more appreciative of them and the people who came before me who have helped create a place for me to succeed. Knowing your history and where you come from has been very important for my personal identity and self-actualization. It's made me not want to take what I had for granted.

Did you synthesize these ideas on your own, or did your parents have similar views?

I think it's something I came into on my own. As a kid, I was always very curious. You can't actually think about how society works without thinking about race, class, and gender. You can't understand how the world works without this lens. Even if I was a kid asking very innocent questions, my parents did a good job of answering my questions honestly while others may not expect kids to understand. They explained it in a way I would understand, but not so that I would take it the wrong way. You can end up being very jaded, but I was a pretty optimistic kid. I remember by the time I was in middle school, I was having these deep talks with my dad. It's kind of funny, because I turned into someone whose opinion my family always wanted, even though I was just a kid.

Knowing your history and where you come from has been very important for my personal identity and self-actualization. It's made me not want to take what I had for granted.

What were some of these ideas you thought about?

One thing that has always struck me is how different groups of people socialize, especially in America. I understood that even though we're in a legally inclusive environment, we're not in a socially inclusive environment. When I moved to the western suburbs of Chicago, I felt like I couldn't fit in — part of it was race, part was culture, and part was class. Those experiences of trying to assimilate were challenging in very real ways I couldn't really articulate at the time. If I look at where I moved to, it's a very well resourced community. It's diverse to a certain extent — depends on how you define diverse. The wealth of resources was amazing to me, but when I looked at the south side of Chicago, I saw nothing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it creates a need for cultural understanding. I always want to understand where people come from. Everyone has a different struggle, and I want to make sure I can process that and speak to it with empathy.

What were some transformative moments that helped you realize your identity?

Moving really solidified my racial identity. When I was younger, I grew up primarily amongst African Americans. I knew I was black but it didn't mean that much until I had something to contrast it against. After moving, the neighborhood was very different. We didn't do all the same activities or even talk the same way. So other experiences taught me how to navigate my black identity in spaces that I'm not black. But then when I go the other direction, I'm still a little different because of my experiences in another place. There's a lot of unpacking to do here. If you go to a fancy school and you go back to a primarily black community, what does that say about being black and education? Is that intrinsic? Do you have to be more macho? I was always a sensitive person growing up, so if I'm trying to project my blackness, how do I do that in a way that is empowering but not detrimental? It's all about people's expectations of blackness, whose expectations they are, and how they manifest.

After all that, everyone starts going through the "change" (puberty), you have to wrestle with sexual identity — what does it mean to be straight, gay, trans, etc.? How do you express that aspect of your identity in a healthy way, in a way that doesn't threaten other people? Everyone should feel free to express every part of himself or herself. Certain behaviors were made fun of growing up, kids would say "that's gay", etc. That's unfortunate. It's all about the search for your identity. I definitely think a lot about those things. There were certain things I was afraid to express growing up, and I wonder, why was I afraid? It seems silly now, but it was very real then. I think those are questions that we all have to ask ourselves.

What kinds of things do you want to pass on to your kids?

If I have my own children, I want to challenge them to think about those things as they go through it. My parents gave me a lot of support to think about those things and didn't try to force me to think one way or another, which was extremely helpful. I want to be open minded in my own way with my own kids, and give them ways to express themselves however they need to. I remember at that time, I was looking for ways to express myself. It wasn't until college that I really came into that.

I was always a sensitive person growing up, so if I'm trying to project my blackness, how do I do that in a way that is empowering but not detrimental? It's all about people's expectations of blackness, whose expectations they are, and how they manifest.

How did you express yourself?

In high school, I started writing essays to express my thoughts. They were about the world and how I fit into that world. I started dabbling in creative writing, and had a few very bad drafts for a novel. Within the novel, there would be certain themes I'd try to tackle... I was definitely experimenting. I didn't do much with music. When I think about it, I had a very creative energy when I was younger. I used to be very good at visual art. I realized how many things I might have had a talent for that I just didn't keep going with. Everything just came back to words. That's where I felt most comfortable.

Everything I became more serious about all had to do with writing or oratory, or how to express myself vocally. It's not surprising at all that I ended up doing a lot of poetry. I wasn't doing anything with poetry in high school because we only read these archaic things. It wasn't for young people; it wasn't for black people. But my thoughts around that began to evolve. Especially as my musical tastes began to expand, I started to see it as a tool that was viable as a mode of expression, both intellectually and emotionally.

Had you been exposed to spoken word before?

I had, but in my early exposure, I thought it was very gimmicky. It seemed very similar to what I would get from hip-hop. I think I originally thought it was too formulaic, but that exposure was very limited. As I've ventured out, I saw that there was so much more range to the art form.

When I think about it, I had a very creative energy when I was younger. I realized how many things I might have had a talent for that I just didn't keep going with. Everything just came back to words. That's where I felt most comfortable.

How did you get into writing poetry with a group and performing?

To be honest, I wasn't writing poetry at all until freshman year. I remember the catalyst for me was going to an Excelano Project show, a spoken word group in college. People were telling me the shows were really good. There was a kid I knew who was visiting Penn as a prospective student who I met through an after school program. I wanted to show him some cool stuff, so I used that occasion to take him to the show, and after that show, I thought, "This was great!" I was just talking about range, and I remember thinking that no one sounded like any stereotypical performance. Everyone had a distinct style and voice. I was inspired by the artistry and also the subject matter. They were talking about race, death, sexuality... they were talking about all these different things that I had built up thoughts and opinions around. I couldn't figure out how to express it in a way that made me feel satisfied. Nothing I did felt like it had the balance, but after that show, I thought, "That's it."

As I wrote poetry, at first they were pretty bad, but I remember how much I enjoyed that process. I was churning out poems very quickly and I noticed that I was getting better at it. Just a year later, I was in the group. That was a lot of growth to go through at a time when I hadn't been writing before that. But like I said, whether I realized it consciously or not, I've always had a fascination with language and the power of words. So when I started writing, I shouldn't have been surprised that things seemed to have been coming into place. That's how I ended up in the group, and since it was a performance based group, that's how I ended up being on stage. We'd do shows on campus and off campus, I got to travel and meet other poets and perform. Ever since then, I've been a very diligent writer. I don't really perform much anymore in a traditional spoken word sense with memorized pieces, but I do write quite a lot and have done a few readings since then. Mostly, I'm trying to steward my work on getting it published. Performing is hard to do with a full-time job, so I'm going the direction of page poetry, and publishing poems to still be engaged in the community in a way that fits my schedule. I can't call myself a full time artist, but I definitely am a practicing poet.

How do you approach writing poetry?

It varies. Sometimes it's inspired by events, moods, or completely random ideas. There are times things pop into my head, and I think it's a piece of a poem so I'll save it for later as a catalyst for a piece. Sometimes it's in response to other artwork, like a film or a song that put me in a very creative mood. Once I started writing regularly, I realized that I was finding things to write about at all times. Not saying I don't go through dry stretches. The words don't come so smoothly all the time. That happens to all writers, and there will be times when what you write is not up to standards. You just fight through those periods. It never lasts forever. There's not really a process that leads to a poem. When the mood is there, I just follow it. If something comes to me, I write it down.

They were talking about race, death, sexuality... they were talking about all these different things that I had built up thoughts and opinions around. I couldn't figure out how to express it in a way that made me feel satisfied. Nothing I did felt like it had the balance, but after that show, I thought, "That's it."

This project started because I'm interested in the transition between teenagers and "mature adults" — this "emerging adulthood" phase. How do you view this decade and how does it fit into your life?

Shoot... that's interesting. It's funny to think of yourself as an adult. I guess I'm an adult, but in so many ways, I still feel like a kid. Where do you draw the line? When I was really a kid, it seemed so easy. I thought it was about having a job and paying the bills. Being an adult is all about experience. Maybe that's why some people mature at different rates. Once you have a certain set of experiences, then you are an "adult". But to be honest, as I've gotten older, I put less stock into the labels of adult and child. In some ways, I feel like kids are the smartest people on earth. It's funny. I think that childhood is about learning your way through the world without the baggage you will eventually be saddled with. But for adulthood, I think it is about ownership of responsibility more than anything else. That's the one trait that characterizes it. There's no other way to summarize it that makes as much sense as that. But you can still own up to responsibility and live like a young person and be young at heart. I think it's healthy to maintain a child's spirit as much as possible. You have to engage according to the norms of the world around you, and being an adult comes with certain expectations, but when you're a kid, it's really about living more than anything else. I think people need to not lose sight of that. ■