Katherine

On Discipline, Self-Image, and Motivation

Katherine is a 24-year old consultant based in New York.

Interviewed January 25, 2015

Tell me a little about yourself.

I'm Katherine, currently 24, and I moved here in 2009 for college at NYU. I'm originally from New Jersey, down by Philadelphia. I had been to New York maybe only two times before moving here, but by the second time, I knew I wanted to move here. I applied, and the rest was history.

At the time, I wanted to go to business school — I had actually applied to Wharton, too. But I ended up at Stern, and I felt like it was the best choice for me. The fates worked out the way they should have.

What did you think about going to college in New York?

At the time, I had only applied to 5 colleges, but all my friends had applied to a lot more so I applied to Stern on a whim. Going to Stern ended up being a really important part of my experience, since NYU is huge but Stern does a lot to build the community. I feel like I do more in the city now because I have more free time than from when I was a student. But it was very special to go to school in the city — for example, my college graduation was at Yankee Stadium and my Stern graduation was at Radio City Music Hall.

What do you do right now, and how did you get there?

I'm at a large tech-focused consulting company in the Digital practice. I do digital marketing and analytics consulting. I got it from the typical on-campus recruiting process. I wasn't interested in finance, unlike most of my friends in Stern, so I looked into management consulting. I took a consulting-type of class called the International Studies Program, and thought it was a good fit for my skillset. I was always interested in the digital industry, so I switched to that group.

When I went to college in 2009, social media was taking off. It was something that hadn't existed before, and it was exciting to explore all these new ways to interact. In particular, I thought it was fascinating that we could track traditionally very qualitative behaviors in a very quantitative way. That went along with my long-time interest in consumer behavior, so I studied marketing and that's where I went from there.

What do you want to do in the long run?

I'm a very entrepreneurial person, so I think in the long run, I'd be interested in working at a start up or in my own company. My parents run a business and theoretically I could take that over. I really thrive in an environment where I have free reign to go with what I think is best. I've always trusted my intuition. I like that quality in that environment: work hard and you see the results. That's a theme of my life that's been very important — I want to see my career to follow that trajectory as well.

When did that mentality get enforced?

I think it started surfacing around a year ago. I went to a competitive school, but I'd study really hard and get a good grade. If I got a good grade, I'd get a good job, get the role that I wanted, etc. But in a big company, just because you work really hard at something, it doesn't mean that you'll always get rewarded. It was a big shock for me that the way I grew up wasn't showing up at work, necessarily. Until then, I hadn't really had many roadblocks.

I really thrive in an environment where I have free reign to go with what I think is best. I've always trusted my intuition. I like that quality in that environment; work hard and you see the results. That's a theme of my life that's been very important — I want to see my career to follow that trajectory as well.

Did your family add or detract to any of that pressure to succeed?

My parents weren't necessarily very pressuring. My mother is Scots-Irish, and that group of people in history literally helped build the nation, through railroads and the Industrial Revolution. My dad's family came over around the time of the Mayflower, like the early 1600s, so there's the idea that they were instrumental in building the country as well. Hard work definitely runs in the family, but they didn't set any specific pressures.

Do you affiliate with being deeply American?

Yeah... haha, I'm just like, super white. My dad's side of the family is pretty WASPy, and my mom's family is German and Irish. Fun fact, I'm actually 6% Cherokee Indian, from my mom's side. I don't really identify with it in any way; at the time the bloodline entered the family it was something people hid, unfortunately. However, I can rock a killer tan in the summer!

What groups do they affiliate with?

My mom was Catholic, and my dad was Protestant growing up. But my parents decided they would raise us with Christian values but we weren't going to be involved organized religion. My mom likes to say she raised us with the Girl Scout's values. I'm pretty happy about that — I think it makes me more open-minded about things. It's a big contrast in generations, because my grandfather is very religious... although I think it's the social aspect of church that's important to him.

Did you grow up with family all around you?

My immediate family lived in South Jersey, and most of my extended family lived in North Jersey so we only saw them around holidays. Recently, after my paternal grandmother passed away, I started seeing my grandfather more. He'd come into city and we'd go to the ballet or see a Broadway show. For a while, I think it was hard because my grandmother had Alzheimer's and it just took up all of his time. It was only afterwards that I ended up developing a relationship with my grandfather. For the most part, I wasn't super close with extended family. My parents also had kids later in life, so all my cousins are 8-10 years older than me.

Do you have any siblings?

I have an older sister. Last year, we went to see Frozen together and I'd like to say that my sister is like Elsa and I'm like Anna. She likes to keep to herself, and I'm very outgoing and want to build a snowman all the time... that's how it was growing up. We're going to Scandinavia together later this year. While growing up, we were a little closer, but I think I mostly just filled the typical annoying little sister role.

My mom likes to say she raised us with the Girl Scout's values. I'm pretty happy about that — I think it makes me more open-minded about things.

What were big forces that shaped you growing up?

I went to a relatively competitive public high school, so I think there was always this sense of pressure. School came easily to me until high school, where I had to put in a little more effort. By college, I had learned how to put that effort in easily. I learned to study in high school, but I remember in college, I really exercised those skills and would make very comprehensive study guides and even write exams for myself to help myself study.

I enjoyed school and I liked a lot of the independence that came with it. Mostly, I liked that school was a true meritocracy and you achieve the results you're looking for. My parents have similar values — you go in, and you do the work. Where I grow up, we have these beach parties that my parents volunteer at. They're always the one carrying stuff, and get their hands in to do the dirty work. Because of that, I've never been afraid of rolling up my sleeves.

Now that you're out of the schooling system, how do you set your goals?

For the time being, I've shifted my focus away from professional development and more towards personal development. In big companies, you could be working incredibly hard and don't see immediate results. I was starting to think I wasn't focusing on myself, so my philosophy has shifted and I've spent the last 8-9 month focusing on myself, mostly my health and my fitness. For a long time, I put grades and other stuff first and I wasn't focusing on my health at all. I've lost a lot of weight now, and it really reinforces the idea that if you work hard, you can lose it. I've lost 70 pounds now, and I have to remind myself when I see photos that it is really what I look like now — I've had to buy new clothes, but I still can't recognize myself in photos. A lot of people ask me what my diet is, but it's nothing magic, just a lifestyle change.

What things did you change?

Mostly what I ate — I'm on low-carb. I either eat no carbs, or have a "one bite" rule for when I'm at parties. It's a way to exercise self-control. I eat clean, so I don't eat foods from the middle of the grocery store. I eat fruits, vegetables, nuts, Greek yogurt, and really focus on what the foods are made of. When I first started trying to lose weight, I was counting calories, but I was eating a lot of carbs and was still hungry all the time. After I switched what I ate, even my taste buds changed. No one can tell you that you need to lose weight. You need to tell yourself that. Once you're in that mental state, it's a lot easier to exercise self-control. I realized recently that I'm a lot stricter and disciplined than I thought I was.

Did it change how often you eat out?

Definitely. It's been a bit of a challenge because as I was making the shift, I started traveling for work. I do have to eat out on the road, but I have to make good choices and am very picky about things. I don't care if it annoys someone — I'm a paying customer. Beforehand, I would eat out every night or Seamless something. Now, on the weekends, I don't eat out as much. I make my own dinners unless I have dinner plans. When I do make dinner plans, I try to pick something that sticks within my nutrition plan.

Has it affected your social life at all?

I don't think so — the travel has been more of a damper on my social life. Most of my activities are going out for coffee, museums, kickboxing classes, walks, etc. I get up every morning on Saturday and Sunday and go to the gym, so I don't go out super late at night or drink really hard the night before. I want my body to be set to succeed.

Was there a make or break moment that set you down this path, or was it a gradual transition?

It was gradual. I had broken up with someone, and the reason I stayed with that person was because I thought, he accepts my body for what it is, and I really let it feed on my insecurities. Of course, that's not good for the relationship and he broke up with me. I was alone for a month, and then started trying going to Zumba classes. I moved somewhere with a legitimate kitchen, and I dropped 70-80 pounds shortly thereafter.

How did you guys meet and what was that like?

We met online. He's a smart guy, but he's really selfish. I'm not a selfish person naturally, and I've been trying to spend my last year to focus on me. It doesn't come naturally to me, and that was part of the downfall of the relationship. He would always take and I would always give. It lasted about a year.

How do you handle roadblocks and plateaus while reaching your weight loss goals?

I haven't hit many plateaus or obstacles yet. I think when I do hit one, I'm going to try to make other changes. I might try a different workout class to boost my metabolism, or try something else like spinning. I think I can also make dietary changes.

What about other parts of your life?

I'd say that right now I'm dissatisfied with my professional development. It's hard to get constructive feedback that leads to something, whether it's improvement or ratings. For me personally, I don't feel like it's an environment I can thrive in. The performance review process in big companies is very broken. Our generation needs constant feedback. What is the purpose of a performance review? To identify things we can improve on. Instead, since it only comes once a year, it's this artificial scheme to ladder people against one another. But the criterion is different for everyone, since we all do different things, and it's not a good comparison. It creates an environment like in school, when everyone focuses on the grades instead of what was learned.

What do you want to do about that?

For now, I'm collecting my paycheck and focusing my energy on other aspects of my life that I can control. I felt like I worked really hard my first year without any recognition or reward, and I would consider looking for another opportunity.

Have you thought about next steps?

I'd like to go to a startup and do sales, business development, or product management. You have to really get in the weeds. In high school, we had to do a lot of bake sales to raise money for band. At that time, my high school band teacher told my mother that I could sell dirt if I had to.

I know I have a strong personality, and that it can be challenging at work, especially with women. I've been told that I'm too aggressive, or that I need to be more soft-spoken (which I thought was extremely sexist). If I'm interested in something, I get passionate and if I get negative feedback, I tend to emotionally disengage. It's a blessing and a curse — I'm very straightforward and I like to tell it as it is. It's not great in a big company where there's politics. But I think it's good to convey things directly.

I feel like you're plowing forward through life.

My kindergarten teacher told my mom, if Katherine wants something, a freight train ain't gonna stop her.

Have you ever thought about applying that outside of your own life, like helping the community?

Some of my passions and interests evolve and change over time; I get into phases. Right now I read a lot of CityLab (by the Atlantic). I find public transit and urbanism really interesting, and I think that especially in New York, there are a lot of challenges around housing and accessibility. Do I act upon it? No, unfortunately. For me right now, I spend half my time in another state (for work), and I spend the other half losing weight. I'd love to be a participant in non-profit work, but I don't have the time. I volunteered a lot in high school, but it's been hard to reengage.

What are the biggest lessons you've learned about health and discipline from working out?

One of the most important things I learned is that fat is good for you. There's been a huge push by the food industry that fat makes you fat, and that's not the case. I've had to learn to shift my view about that, so I eat nuts. I used to never eat nuts before. I also learned about training your body, in terms of how you push yourself and give yourself rest days. The biggest lesson I've learned about eating is to eat clean. It's not about how much you eat; it's about what you eat.

As for discipline, it was more that I was focused so strongly on this. I want to lose probably another 35-45 pounds, and I'm determined to get there.

I've lost 70 pounds now, and I have to remind myself when I see photos that it is really what I look like now — I've had to buy new clothes, but I still can't recognize myself in photos. A lot of people ask me what my diet is, but it's nothing magic, just a lifestyle change.

How do you stay motivated?

The results. Little things, like going to my alumni holiday party and hearing that I looked a lot thinner. I'm 5 dress sizes smaller than I was a year ago. You see results over time. Sometimes it's not easy. I probably weigh myself too much.

Do you think society's motivation structure is flawed?

I think one of the challenges for our generation is that in the past, society was very focused on money and the "American dream" instead of what individually makes them happy. I've learned that yes, I have a job at a high-flying consulting firm and it looks great on paper, but it doesn't really make me happy. I do things because they make me happy, and I want to optimize my life to make myself happy.

What makes you happy?

I like to challenge myself to experience new things. I like being emotionally involved and connected with the people around me. We're all so technologically connected but so emotionally disconnected now as adults. When I'm in a professional setting where I'm doing what I'm passionate about, it would make me happy too.

How does money factor into this?

I don't think I could adjust to doing what I love but not getting paid at all. I don't like the idea of having to be attached to golden handcuffs, but I would be happier in an environment where it's riskier but the reward is higher.

What if the risk doesn't pay out? Do you think about that?

I'm the type of person that wouldn't let that happen.

What if it's out of your control?

That's one of my issues. I don't like when things are out of my control. I would put myself in a place where I can be in control, so that if something goes wrong, I can hold myself accountable for it.

How did you grow up economically, and did it set your standard of living?

I grew up in a typical, comfortable suburban environment. My mother was always very focused on value and she's very frugal, so I keep that mentality with me. Do I spend $500 on a purse? No, if I spend money I spend it on an experience or a trip.

That's a very "Millennial" trait — do you think it's healthy for us all to think this way?

Yeah, I do think so. There's a lot of conspicuous consumption in America, and a lot of people think that eating more or having a bigger house will make you happier. The happiness has diminishing returns. You can carry an experience around with you for your whole life as a reward.

Do you think we're missing out on experiences by splitting it with our digital life?

I think technology should be about making your life easier. Thanks to Amazon Prime, I never go to the store anymore. I don't want to spend my time doing something so mundane. It's hard, because my dad is a software engineer and I grew up around computers. So I do think that sometimes, we're all a little too absorbed in our phones. I studied abroad in 2011 and there, I had a flip phone. You could only contact me if you had my phone number. You couldn't reach me otherwise, and I liked feeling so disconnected. I liked being able to "turn off" — we don't get to turn off anymore and I think that's exhausting.

What was your social circle like?

In high school, I had maybe 1-2 close friends, which was hard because I'm really social. I made a lot more friends in college. The people I talk to from school are such big cheerleaders for me and it really helps that they think so much of me, and that I've built up these kinds of relationships.

It did take going to school, working hard, and having friends who loved me unconditionally to get me to the point where I could love myself. It is more of a journey, but it's a journey that comes when it comes; you can't force it.

Since you've been focusing so much on a short-term goal, have you thought about what you want out of your twenties?

I would like to finish "developing" as a person, but not as much as a lot of people in their twenties who want to discover who they are. I've always been who I am — strong-headed, etc. My interests may change over time, but that part of me is pretty set. I'd like to eventually find a relationship, but that's hard enough for anyone our age.

Is it hard for you to relate to people who are searching for themselves?

Not sure — from my competitive environment, I feel like most people I know are pretty self-assured. I don't know that many people floundering, or like the people in Girls.

Do those peers ever get the "Now what" feeling after they've gotten good jobs?

Definitely. The work programs they've designed for us are so structured and it's comfortable. For example, banking and consulting were so appealing because we were all comfortable with the idea of it. We were encouraged to follow those paths by people 2 years ahead of us who went through it. But it doesn't necessarily make you happy. It was a good experience to have, but there are a lot of gaps in the big company culture that don't make millennials happy.

Would you have done something different?

Maybe I would've looked into startups, but it's hard to get reasonable pay at a start-up straight out of school. So I maybe would've considered other things, but I don't think it would've changed my job. When you go to business school, there's a lot of social pressure to graduate with a job. If it were a liberal arts college, it might've been different.

Do you ever wish you did things differently as a child?

I wish I figured out this weight loss stuff now. It would've helped to be in better shape in college, or with my current ideals. But I don't like to live my life with too many regrets. Growing up, I'd get teased about being overweight — kids are pretty terrible people. I wish I could've gotten around those emotional barriers earlier in life. It did take going to school, working hard, and having friends who loved me unconditionally to get me to the point where I could love myself. It is more of a journey, but it's a journey that comes when it comes; you can't force it.

How did you deal with the teasing when you were younger?

I think a lot of the time, I was in denial about it. I just kept wishing it would change, and that obviously doesn't work.

What advice do you think your future self in ten years would tell your current self?

Not sure, no idea what I'll be like in the future. I guess theoretically, I would tell myself to get out there and explore. I think traveling alone is one of the best things you can do. I learned a lot about myself and my happiness, so I want to go explore when I can afford to make those big sweeping mistakes.

Do you ever think millennials focus too much themselves?

I think so, I haven't been a selfish person and that's how I disconnect with other millennials. In New York, people are extremely selfish.

How is that different from what you're doing now?

There's a difference on focusing on yourself and focusing on yourself to the detriment of others. I don't make other people change their decisions, but I make my own choices. That's how I approach life. ■