Thanks so much for doing this interview with me on the eve of your birthday! (Especially after a punchbowl of gin. Whoo!) So, can you describe what you do now, and how you got here?

Sure, well this is certainly one of the most unique pregames to my birthday ever. I work at an investment fund based in SF, and I've been here since I graduated from college. I chose it because the company and I have a similar investment philosophy and I believe in the apprenticeship model that the company has, which is a 1-on-1 mentorship model. I've always been interested in investment as long as I can remember, so I felt this was a natural step in what I wanted to do.

So is this what you ultimately want to do in life?

Yes — I am doing what I want to do in life.

What is your biggest passion in life?

I don't think a single job fits what I love to do. The jobs that suit the soul's needs and market's needs often aren't the same. I think that I'm continuously improving myself to create a lifestyle that fits into the market's needs and my life's needs simultaneously. Right now, I think my lifetime goal is to continue to do investments in public and private markets in order to support a lifestyle that will include my hobbies, such as farming, music, and even potentially teaching. That all gives me a healthy balance of life.

How did you discover this mix of things is what you were interested in?

I think there were inklings of these interests when I was younger and my parents were telling me what to do. But ultimately, I feel like growing up was more about closing doors than opening them. As you progress to adulthood, I think it's about discovering with certainty which opportunities you can let go of. A lot of people choose jobs to open as many opportunities as possible, even if it means taking jobs they don't necessarily like. Within my immediate college peers, for example, many people choose banking, which often involves long hours and a lot of grunt work. It's good pay despite the long hours, but many people do it because they believe it'll keep the doors open for future opportunities. Rather, I think it's more important to pursue what you want to do in the long run by finding that right door now and integrating it with your current lifestyle.

How will you merge your interests with your current job?

I think I can combine my interests with my job. I can do investments on the side, and that still allows me the time to pursue my own interests, such as farming. I also choose to save wisely, not just saving for the point of saving but rather to create an investment vehicle that has lasting value, either through a bundle of real estate assets, stocks, bonds, or even through private businesses.

Are you on the path to achieving your goals?

Yes, I believe very strongly that you should set your own path or someone will set it for you. This is a direct quote from my boss, who is my mentor. Setting your course and making realistic goals to get there is already 90% of the path. If you don't set your own goals, you'll follow what others set for you even if you don't want to do it yourself.

When did you start developing this mindset?

My mindset changed for me in college. I was always different than most of my peers my whole life — I never had a clique I stayed with high school. I would often jump around from group to group, whether it was "jocks" or "nerds" or however people separated themselves in high school. In college, it became a place where I could freely think and not have my parents' natural reactions (both positive and negative). I could grow independently for my own sake.

Tell me a bit about your family and how you grew up.

I grew up in a typical American suburban home. I have one younger sister and supportive parents who come from different perspectives. My father has an engineering background, so he's more strict while my mother comes from a creative background. So I grew up with a little bit of both. I remember my favorite toy was the Lego set when I was younger and trying to build bridges. My father encouraged precision; my mother encouraged expression. I grew up with a fascination of talking to people just to hear their stories. Somehow, that also tied to the fact that I liked making money from an early age, though I wasn't necessarily interested in spending it.

One time, I was at a grocery store when I was around 7 or 8. My mother was in line and paid in cash, and the cashier asked if she could give us change as an Eisenhower dollar coin since she had no bills. It was a rare coin issued in the 60s, but the cashier was sorry because most customers didn't want to take coins. I thought the coin was interesting, and checked coin prices for all coins later. (This was back when the internet wasn't as big.) I realized when I checked it that it was worth much more than the nominal value of the coin itself. It was worth almost $2 then, but is now probably worth $4-5. I thought at the time that if I could get the coin, I could flip it and gain double the value.

That Sunday, I flipped it at a swap meet for double — and then something clicked in my mind. After a few months, my mother and I covered every single bank in my town and cleaned them out of Eisenhower coins. To this day, they've more than tripled my cost basis, which I kept pretty detailed records on.

Wow, so you were very financially savvy early on. Who influenced you to become interested in finance and investing?

My great-grandfather was a Taiwanese businessman who started a very large steel company. My father has an engineering background and tech stocks were a common talking subject at family parties when I was younger. But I realized after 2000 for some reason, stocks weren't talked about as much (oops), but I still remember those talks. When I think back to my childhood at those family parties, I was the oldest of the kids and I would always be on the fence of whether I should play with the younger kids or talk to the adults. I always chose to sit with the adults, and was very observant of them. Just from listening, I ended up learning a lot.

Who had the biggest influence on you growing up, and at what point did you feel like you started making your own choices?

My parents, definitely though my father was much more vocal. My mother had a large impact on me as well, but she took more of a laissez faire approach to parenting. Her influence on my artsy side and social side is definitely there. By the age of roughly 16, my parents started giving me more and more freedom as I proved myself. I remember a big change when I went to China for an internship when I was 16 and basically lived by myself, even though it was a foreign country.

How has your environment affected the development of your life philosophy, and where do you want to go in the future?

The environment I grew up in definitely influenced me. The people I've met over time, even those who weren't my formal teachers, influenced me. When I was 16 in Beijing, I sat down and talked to an old lady collecting garbage. I talked to her for an entire afternoon. She was my teacher then, but you wouldn't think of her as a typical schoolroom teacher.

A lot of people have natural mentor-like attributes. They just want to talk about their experiences and they derive pleasure from sharing their own lessons. As long as you're receptive, you can find mentors easily from all walks of life. I've spent a lot of time taking in people's life experiences and soaking it up like a sponge. As a result, I'd say that most people would describe me as more mature than my age. Because of that, I guess I don't really click with people in my age group. I'm in a position where I wonder where I am, except I know that I'm comfortable with who I am.

What do you think people your age are supposed to act like?

I'd say it depends on their own environments, but most people in their 20s are still trying to find themselves and be financially stable. In our teenage years, our bodies change a lot during puberty. A lot of people in their teenage years ponder about their physical changes to their bodies. As we venture into our early 20s, we ask ourselves, what is in this mind and what can it do? So we are responding to mental changes in our development. I believe there's a kind of lag factor in figuring out their identities. A lot of people are still trying to figure that out. I'm not saying I'm faster than them in anyway, but I do see that I've turned out differently.

Why do you think you developed differently?

My personality is very intellectually curious, but I think what was more important was my environment. The other kids I grew up with were much younger, so I chose to be around the adults. When I was 13, I helped volunteer for a lot of scholars who came from China and taught them basics about life in America. But what they imparted upon me was much more valuable, which was their scholarly attitudes on how to develop as a person. One music professor told me that he believed people should become a T-shaped person, with a broad sense of the world, but capable of deep focus on a few subjects that you really enjoy. Pardon my nerdiness, but over time your interests may turn into a standard distribution, where your knowledge becomes more bell-shaped than a T. And over time, that's what I'd like to become.

Since you are someone who believes in investing for lifestyle profits as well as financial profits, I'd love to hear more about your perspectives on personal finance. When did you first start earning money?

There were 2 instances — the first I mentioned was the Eisenhower coins. The second would be Pokemon cards. Unlike other kids, I never learned how to play the game and I didn't really collect them for the point of collecting. I'd ask my mom to take me to swap meets when I was 8-10 years old for the sole purpose of trading up cards. I'd go around and talk to kids my age and I'd find the one kid who was fairly well off but didn't know too much about Pokemon, and I'd trade him a bundle of semi good and bad cards with a really good holographic. After doing that, I'd assemble a bundle of holographic cards and sell it for a premium.

For some reason, after I got the cash, I never really spent it. I put it in a "savings account", which was really just a piggy bank back then. My favorite task at the time was filling out a checks and balances book that would map out my net worth, which in hindsight probably wasn't worth the effort for the few dollars of profit. I'd mark out how much I made and so forth. But lo and behold, trading up Pokemon cards plus the coins and other small ventures helped me make my first thousand when I was 10 years old. I remember that day very well, and I was very excited. But it didn't mean that much to me because of the value, per se. Money is just a number, not a status symbol.

So in your mind, what would you say your personal view of money is? Money is for _____.

Money is a means to create lasting value. Money can't buy lasting value directly (by its own nature, depreciates due to inflation), but it's a means to find appreciation. For example, I really enjoy backpacking outdoors. To do that, you need the plane ticket, backpack, and a bunch of other supplies. Those items wouldn't really lead to lasting value, since the equipment deteriorates over time. But the experience of bonding with friends, developing my own philosophy, experiencing nature, and so forth is what endures. But remember to create lasting value, you must be able to financially sustain yourself first. Survival comes first; just think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. If you can't fulfill your basic needs, then forget about self actualization.

How much do you spend/save? Is this advice you'd give to everyone?

I save roughly 40%, not including retirement. I don't think this is what all other people should do, since everyone is in a different environment. For example, I think that if I find that I'm making eight figures but only saving 40%, then there's something probably wrong. There's a drop off in utility for incremental amount of money spent. Given my current income, I think this percentage figure is roughly right, especially given my current age and situation (unmarried, no kids).

I can't speak to how others will find value in their lives, because my worldview is different. I think this is key in my personal philosophy. No matter how many doors you open, it's up to you to choose which doors stay open or closed. My doors aren't always the best doors for others.

Do you feel like you're in a similar situation as many people your age?

No. Even by statistics, I'm a college educated, literate graduate living in one of the best cities in the nation. That creates different circumstances and puts me on a different tail. I don't mean this arrogantly, but these are the facts. For me to say, "You need to find your purpose in life," doesn't apply evenly to all people. For example, my parents and sister are totally fine financially and I don't need to support them, and I also don't have other obligations like massive college debt. If those factors were instead flipped, maybe I'd spend more time working and less "finding purpose in life."

What are your thoughts on this current generation?

I think a common problem found in our generation is that it has little/no filter. We can't process our thoughts before posting. The fact that there are websites that force you to write things within specific character counts is dangerous. It produces verbal diarrhea. These are thoughts that are undigested. It's beyond oversharing, because there's not enough thought that goes into what we're sharing. Technology is becoming too invasive, to the point where ease and accessibility is excessive and overrides coherent thought.

Do you associate with people in your generation?

In general, I'd say no, but I do find people who I share a lot with and I'm open to listening to other people's philosophies. I have no intention of becoming a hermit — I'm actually a very social person. (And if I sound like a cynic, I totally don't mean it! I really am a super happy person!) I have a rule for myself: if I have to do laundry on a weekday, it means I had a good weekend. I play another game — when I'm in a public setting with strangers, I want to get the other person to give me his or her number. Not that I'm creepy, but I want to be able to talk to that person and get to a point where they feel so comfortable with me that they want to continue to contact with me. I don't necessarily want to follow up with them, but what's most important is that that level of connection is there.

Is this level of connection unattainable with technology?

Let me put it this way — I find it so interesting that you have a bus full of people but everyone is stuck on their screens.

Do you think that's symptomatic of being in a city?

Well, if you have too many people, the natural inclination is the value of each human life around you becomes less. Unfortunate, but true. It's called the "Genovese syndrome" — check it out.

Do you want to get away from the city?

Yes and no. I started having a genuine interest in agriculture and farming since I've graduated, but I don't want to get away because I enjoy meeting people from the city. I want to meet people from the countryside too. I want to get to know both. So, I would like to leave because I want to pursue more of agriculture, but I don't want to leave the city people.

How do you think our generation associates with the earth?

Destructive. I encourage people to watch George Carlin's view on saving the planet. You'll understand what I mean.

If you could summarize your life philosophy in one sentence, what would it would be?

Dao (the way). No matter what happens, things settle in its natural way. Everything that is conflict will ultimately move towards harmony. Anything that is out of balance will move towards balance, whether you force it or not. ■