What do you do right now, and how did you get there?

I recently moved to Goldman Sachs to do electronic trading. Prior to that, I was doing high touch and electronic sales trading at Citi in Hong Kong. What that means is when a financial institution wants to trade different equity markets, we advise them on the best strategy to execute their orders. We provide them with advice on how to best achieve a specific execution objective via some sort of algorithmic strategy. If that doesn't mean anything to you, the reason the platform we sell is important is because the clients we deal with tend to be trading in large amounts. When you do that, it's hard to buy or sell anything you want without moving the market. In that case, it requires you use certain algorithmic strategies to search for liquidity when it isn't there, or make other adjustments. That's the main value of the platform.

Did you know about this before you came in?

Hell no! I had no idea this sort of desk even existed before joining. When you first get into Sales & Trading, it's like, maybe you watched Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps or something and thought people just bought and sold something. It's not that simple. You usually can't just buy or sell a quarter or half a day's volume worth of a stock without a specific plan to execute or else you'll drive the stock up or down against you. That's where this desk comes in. My role is to cover hedge funds, specifically hedge fund traders who want to buy or sell equity stock on any Asia Pacific market (excluding Japan and Australia).

Is this what do you want to do in the long run?

I can't really see myself on the sell-side for too long, but during my 2 years in electronic trading, I've developed a strong interest in the financial technology space, so I'd like to start a business in this space in the future. Technology is driving the future of the securities business with automated trading platforms continuing to make markets more efficient while displacing your traditional trading floor staff. I'd like to continue to be a part of what's driving this change. With that being said, another one of my long term goals is also to be the next Asian Stephen Starr, starting my own portfolio of restaurants. I don't know how close I am to achieving that, but it's something of true value that I'd definitely like to do.

Have you been cooking a lot?

I've been cooking for myself, just to stay healthier. It's not so much about being the chef - there's only so much money you can make there. I want to be the business management behind it. Stephen Starr started with a bar, and then opened up a series of restaurants with famous chefs like Morimoto. It's something I've always wanted to go into because restaurants provide very simple tangible value. For a restaurant, it's not just the food - it's the experience. It's bringing people together, where relationships can be built. Families and friends come together. There's nothing bullshit about it. You see exactly what you get. If it's good, you know it.

Tell me a bit about how you grew up.

My dad started in the restaurant industry when he was very young. He's been a chef in more places than I can remember. He started in HK, then for some reason he moved to South America (maybe he was kidnapped and shipped there to prepare Chinese dishes for the locals..who knows lol). I remember he moved to the Bahamas after a while, then finally landed in DC, where he started opening his own restaurants and that took up a good part of his life. When I was born, he was still in the industry. Later on, it apparently became much more difficult to directly manage the different restaurants, so he stepped back from that and started moving into bars. His life/career has been a huge influence on me, which is why I'd like start my own restaurant group someday, but I'll probably diversify beyond just Chinese cuisine...

As for the way I grew up, I think I was brought up to be pretty independently. The expectation was set when my dad told me, "This is your life. We can try to guide you as much as we can. At the end of the day, you can fuck up, but think about the consequences. It's not so much about hurting your parents financially, but you hurt them emotionally. And if you fuck up, what about your future family? How are you going to build that?"

That's a lot of responsibility at an early age.

Yeah, my dad was always upfront about this stuff. Because of that, I think I matured faster in comparison to people in my age group. Not so much in college (because I did fuck around a lot), but my views of the world were more that you had to rely on yourself.

Who or what had the biggest influence on you growing up?

Pretty common answer, but my parents. I've always had a close relationship with them. My dad never tried to sugar coat anything about his views. He never wanted to protect me in a way that his brothers and sisters sheltered their children.

Do you appreciate that?

I do and I don't. Pragmatically, it's good that I was able to realize certain things earlier than others. At the same time, your innocence and the time in your life when things are simpler is pretty short. Losing that earlier, you feel like you were deprived of something. But it's not that big of a deal.

At what point did you feel like you started making your own choices?

For me, extracurriculars in high school were more my choice, but I was under the impression that ECs were a way to pad my resume. I wanted to pursue personal interests, but ultimately I wanted to build towards college. My parents didn't really know what to do about that, so that was on me as well.

As for going to Penn and studying finance, at some point I was thinking about career paths like every good Asian and you think about law school, med school, engineering, etc. I did some CS classes like C++ and Java in high school, developed a bit of interest in that area and thought about pursuing an engineering degree. But my dad told me (not to be offensive or anything), "Son, think about all the programmers in India. Not saying they're necessarily smarter than you, but they'll work way harder than you and for less. And based on numbers, there are probably plenty who are smarter than you, so you probably shouldn't go into that area." This pisses me off a little because now you see the tech boom after I studied finance, which makes me ask why I studied it to begin with.

If I do an MBA, I would want to go to a school with exposure to more than just business. MIT, obviously, has more tech exposure. I might possibly want to get an MBA if I get really tired of what I'm doing and there's no way to laterally move out of what I'm doing.

I even thought about pre-med, and my dad said, "Son, I know you. You're not a very caring person. I think you should do something else." At that point I said, "Fine, what should I do?" I don't remember all of his long ass speeches about how being an entrepreneur is awesome, but I thought, if that would make him happy, then fine. I started looking up undergrad business programs because I was so focused on business. A big part of that was pleasing my dad, which is kind of sad, but I ended up going to Wharton.

When I got there, I thought the emphasis was going to be on entrepreneurship, which you can study at Penn but the culture still revolves around finance. Most people go into finance or consulting. There are a few guys who have the balls to think, "I'm going to use my education to further my true interest and build a business." I guess I was rather risk averse and thought pursuing a career in finance would provide a more stable and reasonable income, so I studied finance and marketing, thinking that it would be great for getting me a job in Sales and Trading. And that's how I ended up doing what I'm doing now.

Once I went to college, there wasn't more influence that my parents had over me. They didn't really try to push me to do this or that. That's when I had to figure out what I should do with my life.

Do you have a clear picture on what you want to do with your life?

I really don't. When I was younger, I wanted to plan things out and think, "For the next few years, I'm going to do this or that." A lot of people would dismiss this view as lazy now, but I feel like planning it out so strictly now really narrows your mind so much to the possibility. It also makes you stuck on a path but the environment changes so quickly. I've gotten really flexible with what I want to do. We all want some sense of control over our lives, and having a plan is part of that, but at some point you come to realize that there's so much in this life that is out of your control no matter how much you want to be in control over it. That doesn't bother me anymore -- the best thing you can do is adapt to it and try to anticipate the future.

How would you describe the general attitude of people in their twenties in Hong Kong?

Hmmm, thats a very hard question to answer...probably due to the fact that Hong Kong is a highly socially and culturally stratified place. You have the expats working for foreign institutions and living off salaries that are multiples of their local peers. You have the sons and daughters of wealthy Hong Kong families who may also work for the same foreign institutions, work for their families' businesses, or just chill all day and party all night. And finally, you have the average locals living often times less than average lives in an environment where the previous two groups enjoy most of what this materialistic society has to offer. But despite the differences, I think at the end of the day, all 20-somethings from all three of these groups have one thing in common: we're all trying to figure out what to do with our lives. Some of us may have a greater sense of financial freedom/stability than others, which in turn allows us to buy more random things to amuse ourselves with, but we're all still in this transitional phase where we're not quite where we want to be yet. This holds true whether you're an investment banker trying to move into PE, a grad student trying to find that job that made your extra years of schooling worth it, a consultant debating whether to do a startup or go to b-school, or one of many unemployed college grads still living at home because the market doesn't value your skills as much as you do. None of us 20-somethings have our lives quite figured out yet. And this isn't particularly a Hong Kong thing; its just a natural part of being 20-something.

What do people prioritize there? For example, how do they treat brands, appearances, etc?

The Hong Kong image of beauty is the same as America's, just skinnier. For guys too — they're skinny little bitches. Although, people here are even more fashion oriented. It could be scorching hot on a weekend and you still see guys in oxford shirts and blazers. When I see that, I think to myself, "Come on man, it's like 90 degrees, what are you trying to pull?" People are very focused on looking good.

The industries are going to push for it, of course. The more you wanna look good, the more they can sell you. I haven't been to that many places so it's hard to tell if it's more superficial than other cities. From what I know, New York is more multi-faceted. In Hong Kong, it might be because I'm in the financial circle and this is all I see in the clubbing districts. In general, people are much more aware of what they look like and are focused on looking good.

What's most important for you in ranked order right now?

At this point in my life, I think #1 is career because I'm still so young. I can't start a family yet - not because I don't want a family. That's a very big part of your life, so of course you'll want to do that. I want to be in a good financial position so that I can give my children the best that they should have, and that requires some time. So yeah, focusing on my career first.

I want to maintain relationships with people that are important to me, and meet new people to a certain extent. Your life is really the people in your life. Hong Kong is not all that different from NYC structurally. It's a big city, you can buy a lot of shit here, eat and drink expensive things, so a lot of things you can find in NY you'll find here and vice versa, but whether or not you like this place is whether you can find people that you'll connect with and make it okay to stay here. I've met more of those people so life isn't too bad here.

How'd you meet those people?

Friends of friends; just random places. Sometimes you'll go with a friend to some even and meet a bunch of random people. If you meet just 1 out of 10 or 20 people you think you could have a decent conversation with, it's a good night.

How do you keep in touch with people you've just met when you don't have an environment like school where you keep seeing people consistently?

Good question. It's pretty hard. Hong Kong is a small place so it's not hard to get people to leave their homes, since you don't want to be in your small ass apartment anyway. For keeping in touch, it's mostly just reaching out. If you meet some people that are part of a friend group you're not a part of, and then you just end up hanging out with the friend that looped you in. You try to build that area.

I didn't move here with a friend group, so the only thing you can do is go out and meet new people. You rely on weak ties - your alumni circle, finance circle, the company, etc. Chances are that you'll meet a few people that you'll have a decent conversation with and connect with them. Since it's so much harder to meet good new people now, you try harder to keep in touch with them.

It's harder if the person is from HK since they're with people they've known for all their lives. But for other expats, it's pretty easy since everyone's trying to meet new people. It's kind of like new student orientation in college.

What are unexpected difficulties one may encounter for moving abroad to work when they've grown up in America?

For me, I'm pretty flexible about where I live. I don't get too attached to physical aspects of an environment. For me, it's really just the people. This hit me harder than I thought it would. It's hard when the people you've grown up with and supported you when times were tough are not in your immediate environment. They're always reachable but the 12 hour difference does fuck with you. It's something you don't realize until you get here and realize you're alone. How do you get past it? Sorry to say this, but you become a harder, more independent person. You're more self-reliant. Of course you've got a soft side and you try to meet new people, maybe even new people you can trust and form a new network. But this isn't college anymore; you're less likely to be put into a situation where you can form as many of those relationships as before. It shouldn't have been unexpected, but it was unexpected in terms of the degree of loneliness you feel and the idea that everything you knew and had isn't there anymore.

Is there a certain kind of person that can more easily make this transition?

For people used to relying on people constantly -- the princesses of the world -- those people would get a very rude awakening. It's not as easy as you think. "Hong Kong is great; it's going to be an easy move!" Nope. It's easier for an expat to adjust to Hong Kong than other places because there are less language barriers and more western stuff here, but outside of college, there aren't natural structures to help you build your new network. Let me ask you, how many people are you that close with from work?

I've gotten lucky in that my team has gotten very tight and we're really close. It doesn't feel like work except that I've had to deal with client shit, but generally it's okay.

Someone who can accept reality might do better here. A lot of people like to dwell on the past, and complain that things aren't the same. But crying won't really get you anywhere. The sooner you accept the fact that your'e on your own, and you have to start a whole new life, the sooner you'll start to get over it.

What do you think is the best and worst part of your twenties?

The best part is the freedom in your life. Past college, you're not dependent on anyone. The financial independence is kind of exhilarating - you can do whatever you want. In college, you could fuck around a lot but you weren't working then and you relied on your parents for money. This is also a point in your life where you don't have to start a family, so you could spend time traveling, switch jobs a few times, or go learn something. You can experience things that you couldn't experience before and may not be able to experience later. It really is a very free period. That's the great thing about this freedom.

As for what worries me, I'm worried that my career won't head in the trajectory I want it to and when I hit 30, I won't be in a financial state where I could start a family.

You're not worried about meeting someone to start a family with?

Ah, I'm sure you read that article about sex life at Penn. Well, financial state is a more immediate concern, but you make a good point. I've thought about it a bit, but it is easier for guys in that you have more time to find the person that you want. I'm not all that concerned for finding person at the moment, but being in HK, it is harder to find people that I'm legitimately interested in and can connect with well. Prior to meeting someone I'm seeing now, I kept thinking that the girls I met were way too shallow or working too much. Think about the people I'm meeting -- in the banking circle, the girls are all tired and have to work all the time. I'm career oriented, but not that much and couldn't be with a girl who's like that all the time. On the local side, you could also meet sons and daughters of rich families who went to good schools. They'd be in a circle you'd get exposed to, but that's not my background. The sons and daughters of rich ass families have a different mentality than me, and it's not easy to connect with people either. These people view money in a different way. I'm more comfortable in an ABC environment -- the sons and daughters of immigrants who crossed the ocean and worked their asses off. I'm sure you've heard this many times before since you're so involved in the Asian community, but moving to HK made me fully appreciate that culture and understand what the differences are. Asian American, HK Asian, Mainland Asian are all different identities. We have cultural similarities but at the end of the day, we're separated by many values and views on life. Not to say that an Asian American meet someone more Chinese and still get along, but you're more likely to connect with someone if they have that same background.

Has it been harder for you to meet people since you've gotten to HK?

It's not really a fair comparison to compare it to college. You go to class every day (or every week... whatever haha) and people are shoved in your face. You have plenty to choose from. Here, Hong Kong has a small environment and people are also pushed at you, but in a different way. Hong Kong is a paradox. There are so many people you could potentially meet, but you still feel so lonely. I don't feel that way now, but initially that was the first feeling that hit me.

Do you prefer being single or in a relationship?

At the moment, I'm enjoying the single life. Just like being a relationship, it has its plusses and minuses. I enjoy the freedom that I have and that there's no one I really have to explain or answer to. That can be very liberating, especially when you're so young. When you're in a relationship, there are a lot of things you do that are influenced by your significant other. Not because they're trying to rule your life or anything, but if you wanted to change your job or travel or something, that relationship will influence your decisions on career, location, or whether or not you go to a bar on a Friday night. Your decisions are not truly independent anymore. When it comes to dating, I'm a fairly romantic guy, and I enjoy dating because in my mind, it is just as much about making someone else happy as making yourself happy. The idea is that if you are able to make someone happy while spending time with someone, you yourself should be happier too. Some people have a more selfish view on it. "I am single now, so I can do everything for me, buy all this shit for me!" but it's much more satisfying to know that you can have an impact on someone else's life. To know that the little things you do can put a smile on someone's face and make their day. That can be done through friendship as well, but it's different in a relationship.

What's easy and what's difficult about dating as an expat in HK?

From my side, scheduling isn't too hard. I have time. I roll into the office at 7 and leave at 7 so I have time for dinner. Difficulty-wise, it's hard to meet the right person that you'd want to go out and have dinner with.

I'm much more of a holistic view kind of guy. I don't have a checklist of things I want in a partner. In my mind, if these check marks are hit, it's more to understand why the connection is there but it's not like because they're checked off, the connection will be there.

For difficulties, I guess primarily it's cultural background and logistics. Bankers have a hard time dating.

Do you think your parents' situation influences your relationships?

My view on relationships is directly influenced by my dad's. I was taught that as a man, you don't need much to be happy. What becomes important is your family, the woman in your life, your children. If you can make them happy, you can't be that bad of a guy. You feel some level of success there. You don't have to be rich or buy them the best things. It's just doing the right things that can make them happy being with you. Knowing that you care makes that matter, and they reciprocate it.

If it comes to developing your career to provide for them versus spending time with them, what would you do?

I refuse to allow my children to grow up poor, but then again, who would? It's hard... when I was growing up, my parents didn't spend much time with me, but I understood why. It's important to have open communication so your children understand why things are they way they are. When people complain, "Mommy and Daddy didn't spend time with me, wah" -- well, they were trying to keep the lights on. There's no absolute between choosing to build your career versus spending time with your family. It's a balance of what you think is appropriate. So obviously, I'll try to make as much time as possible for my kids and for my wife while being able to provide as much comfort as possible.

What's the most important lesson you've learned so far?

I really believe a person's life is valued by the relationships they built in life. Not the shit that he's accumulated, or the job that he has. It's about the people he's met, the people who've influenced him, etc. That's really what your life revolves around. You don't think too much about it in college when your friends are all around and you're fixated on recruiting for the best jobs out there. You think you have to achieve and get the best job out there, but really, that stuff isn't that important.

It's kind of ironic, isn't it, that we went to these great schools and have to relearn what the basic things are in life that makes us happy?

Yeah, but it's kind of refreshing in a way. And it's always good to know that we're so young - we're only 24. There's so much time. ■